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cj 17 hours ago [-]
I can also eliminate the illusion by covering up the blue circles and only looking at the orange circles.
Maybe that's what the DMT is doing? ... perhaps it gives you tunnel vision (or tunnels your attention) such that you only "see" (or are paying attention to) the orange and blocking out the blue from your mind.
mmsc 16 hours ago [-]
The "I measured my own susceptibility using an app I vibe-coded with GPT-5.6 Sol: I dragged a slider until the two circles appeared equal in size." is available on IA:
i find this whole blog very dubious, with apologies to the author.
a bunch of people did psychedelics and then found that reality seemed more inclined to listen to their volition and respond to their intention or attention.
this was an n of some small number, and the original person who reported it could not reproduce it.
i don't believe this is good science.
the test is self made by the subject while under the affect of the drug.
the subject has a bias as well.
this is a trip report.
vablings 15 hours ago [-]
"i find this whole blog very dubious"
"i don't believe this is good science"
This is a blog.
18 hours ago [-]
kouru225 13 hours ago [-]
Well I guess I have to do the most powerful hallucinogen now. How else am I gonna save myself from the devious Ebbinghaus illusion?
drcongo 18 hours ago [-]
> But then I notice that when I move my attention to the centre of the picture — to the space between the two groups of circles — their apparent sizes begin to rebalance[...]
This works for me without DMT.
bitbuilder 16 hours ago [-]
Same. When I read that line my first thought was "ok, but have you tried that sober?" It seems like a rather intuitive way to counter the illusion without the need for DMT.
It's pretty easy for me to replicate the balanced circles by gazing at the center point. However, I can't say whether that would've held true had I not been predisposed to the possibility via the article.
It does require me to slightly "space out", for lack of a better way of putting. Not defocus, more like downshifting my visual cortex a notch.
For whatever it's worth, I was a college kid in the 90s, and I can induce a wavy effect on patterned walls and floors via a similar spacing out.
eatitraw 16 hours ago [-]
Author of the article here! Yes, of course, I've tried this sober — merely shifting attention does not work.
Thanks for the report. Some people do report being able to cancel it while sober. For most of them, defocusing their vision is required, which is not particularly surprising - you are removing the surrounding context.
Could you please tell me more about downshifting the visual cortex? I am planning to publish an update on this illusion, with various sober attention techniques to establish a baseline for future research.
40four 5 hours ago [-]
I don’t find the illusion to be very effective in a sober state, so I’m not really sure what to think of the idea that 5-MeO “cancels” it. The one on the right barely seems bigger if at all, and I feel like I can context switch it similar to the Necker cube you mentioned. I guess I’m not impressed :)
At least I learned 5-MeO isn’t a song visual experience, I thought it was for some reason. On N, N-DMT you wouldn’t be able to look at anything.
superb-owl 18 hours ago [-]
same!
lstodd 17 hours ago [-]
It also won't work on DMT. Because when you take DMT, whatever variety, you will not be able to look at a monitor, a picture or anything really. The whole concept of "looking at something" is inapplicable then.
marssaxman 16 hours ago [-]
This is about 5-MeO-DMT, not N,N-DMT (which is what people usually mean by "DMT"). Very different experience.
drcongo 16 hours ago [-]
True. I think the entire article might just be a boast that the author took some DMT.
throwup238 17 hours ago [-]
Some family recently visited from out of state and we went to Venice Beach, where there is now tons of stores selling “magic mushrooms” along the boardwalk.
To my knowledge shrooms haven’t been legalized in California so I was curious what they sold (but not enough to try it). Turns out California state regulators have been surreptitiously testing the product from time to time and most of it is 5-MeO-DMT… and they don’t do anything about it despite being schedule I.
Venice Beach, leading the way in “medical” research!
quesera 17 hours ago [-]
I'd be astonished if any of what you wrote above is true.
State regulators do not "surreptitiously test" Schedule I drugs on the public via retail sale. That's just inane.
There is no legal classification for "magic mushrooms", but I am willing to bet that the products for sale are legal, and do not contain psilocybin or psilocin.
They're just some unregulated compound that might have come from mushrooms, but is more likely made in a lab, and may or may not be mildly psychoactive.
And they'll probably add some caffeine and theobromine, which boardwalk denizens will feel the effects of and not know precisely how to categorize.
csh0 16 hours ago [-]
I get how you could misread it, given his use of the word surreptitiously, but OP is not suggesting that the state is testing the products on consumers, but instead that they occasionally test the products to identify what they contain and what is being sold.
quesera 16 hours ago [-]
You're right, I definitely misread that part. Apologies!
FWIW, OP's framing is still misleading though. Regulators do not test retail product as part of some kind of surreptitious sting operation, which they then do not bother to follow through on.
The Department of Public Health responds to complaints, and patterns of medical reporting to find a cause and determine whether there are legal or health code violations. The sale of 5-MeO-DMT (or psilocybin or psilocin) would be shut down, and charges filed.
The sale of 4-Aco-DMT would be legal, so instead they issue warnings that amount to "That thing you bought that was sold with claims of similarity to an illegal drug does actually have physiological effects even though it's legal, so be careful.". Which is fair enough!
radicaldreamer 17 hours ago [-]
A lot of them contain psilocybin analogues like 4-Aco-DMT
quesera 17 hours ago [-]
That would make much more sense. :)
Legal, unregulated, and synthetic. But close enough for the moderately-savvy customer.
dns_snek 15 hours ago [-]
It's almost the same thing. Both psilocybin and 4-aco-dmt are just (?) prodrugs for psilocin which is the psychoactive compound associated with magic mushrooms.
It's not like those horrible synthetic THC analogues we see in Europe that can kill people.
gavinray 15 hours ago [-]
Having done 4-AcO-DMT and Psilocybin (4-HO-DMT), I would not be able to distinguish them in a blind test.
I actually prefer 4-AcO because it's easier to get a consistent dose with (mushrooms vary in potency) and doesn't cause the nausea that consuming dried mushrooms sometimes causes.
radicaldreamer 17 hours ago [-]
There is simply no way, since it isn’t active orally.
Also, it is an extremely powerful psychedelic with effects nothing like psilocybin. It’s most likely 4-Aco-DMT
AngryData 14 hours ago [-]
My state has a few cities that allow shroom sales inside of it, usually in weed dispenseries.
17 hours ago [-]
yieldcrv 17 hours ago [-]
This is the second time I’ve heard that but my Google search isn’t yielding results, can you link me to the tests from California regulators?
This article also says that 5-MeO-DMT has no psychoactive effects taken orally
they are very VERY different substances, the subjective experience of 4-AcO is actually very similar to Psilocybin.
radicaldreamer 17 hours ago [-]
Yup, it’s a prodrug. Some people prefer it to the real thing because it has fewer GI side effects, although one study has said it has more adverse events (particularly cardiovascular stress) associated with it as well
Jerrrrrrrrry 17 hours ago [-]
Its a prodrug. It metabolizes into the same alkalines
yieldcrv 16 hours ago [-]
I’m glad they are testing them and it demystifies a lot.
Of note the legal status in that state regulator’s article is misleading
4-Acetoxy-DET And 4-Acetoxy-DMT are not on any schedule, but could be subjected to the Analog Act, which itself has unresolved legal status per substance
tgtweak 17 hours ago [-]
Very fitting that California be at the forefront of narcotic research
quesera 17 hours ago [-]
You are responding with affirmative condescension to a claim that is almost certainly not true.
Apparently it feeds your biases though. Check your filters, perhaps?
riffic 17 hours ago [-]
narcotics are not even being discussed here.
thewillowcat 17 hours ago [-]
> QRI is a non-profit building a new science of consciousness. Its central bet is that: Consciousness is a relatively simple property of our universe — simple enough for evolution to discover it. Consciousness has useful computational properties — otherwise evolution would not have come to rely on it.
My brother, that is philosophical position, not a "bet".
bawolff 17 hours ago [-]
A "bet" is just a slang for doing something based on a position you have.
ricardobeat 17 hours ago [-]
It is a bet if they are trying to build a business, or do research, on top of that position.
WASDx 17 hours ago [-]
Sounds like a hypothesis to me.
axblount 17 hours ago [-]
It's really hard to take stuff like this seriously. 5-MeO-DMT helped you see something you knew was true? (the red circles are the same size) Shocking.
I'm really confused by the idea that we're at some kind of evolutionary local minimum and psychidelics are going to push us out.
I'm not up on the biology, but don't our bodies produce DMT (I realize that's not the compund from the article) and/or analogues? If psychdelics allow us to see the truth, why isn't my brain upping the dose?
ricardobeat 17 hours ago [-]
> 5-MeO-DMT helped you see something you knew was true? (the red circles are the same size)
You may be an exception here?
Most humans, myself included, see the right circle as larger than the left one, regardless of how strongly you know they are the same size. Perception quirks like these are the basis for a lot of graphic design theory.
If the drug cancels this effect, it is doing something significant to the brain.
temp0826 17 hours ago [-]
As someone who has done plenty of 5-meo-dmt and bufo I find this silly. Yes, something significant is happening...how could anyone really care about an optical illusion on your laptop when you're dissolving into God?
Anyways my guess is that his pupils were the size of dinner plates and I'd wonder if having your eyes dilated by other means would have a similar effect
yfontana 17 hours ago [-]
Was it ever in doubt that psychoactive drugs have significant effects on the brain?
lstodd 17 hours ago [-]
> why isn't my brain upping the dose?
because you are not stressing it in the right way.
PS. idk where you got the idea of 'we're at some kind of evolutionary local minimum'. it was never about that.
axblount 17 hours ago [-]
The article implies that our sober brains are susceptible to illusion where as the 5-MeO-DMT brain sees things more truthfully.
lstodd 17 hours ago [-]
Hah, yes and no. What we see sober is an illusion, and etheogens just show us other illusions, so that with some effort we can cross-correlate them and hopefully arrive at The Truth. It being that there is no such thing.
Most one can do is accept that one is limited by one's perception and then keep that in mind.
quesera 17 hours ago [-]
Well put.
We're all blind, and that might be an elephant.
mistermann 17 hours ago [-]
[dead]
bawolff 17 hours ago [-]
my assumption is that psychedelics affect how different parts of the brain communicate.
On that hypothesis, it doesnt really surprise me that illusions based on context clues are interpreted differently.
Gys 17 hours ago [-]
I want to try this myself and was disappointed the test was not online (anymore).
(a one shot in DeepSeek, with only manual adjustments for the sizes)
waffletower 15 hours ago [-]
This sentence, from the article, is one of the most conceptually broken sentences I have ever encountered: "Consciousness has useful computational properties — otherwise evolution would not have come to rely on it." If you grant evolution teleology, a serious chickenegg emerges, and the recursion shatters the "logic". And the other reading... how does a computational property manifest as an abstract goal on to itself without the pre-existence of consciousness? Another chickenegg. I wonder if this article was originally translated from another language or was created with inference. The author conflates design and evolution without providing any projection for their orthogonality. In other words, you need some kind of God to infuse a priori consciousness onto this evolution process. Otherwise consciousness is simply emergent.
ForHackernews 16 hours ago [-]
They should make a law against giving psychedelics to Bay Area rationalists.
suoloordi 16 hours ago [-]
Substituting one illusion for another.
functionmouse 17 hours ago [-]
I mean. So would looking through cardboard tubes. In this context, cardboard tubes are at least as cool.
Maybe that's what the DMT is doing? ... perhaps it gives you tunnel vision (or tunnels your attention) such that you only "see" (or are paying attention to) the orange and blocking out the blue from your mind.
https://web.archive.org/web/20261008201251/https://heart.qri...
a bunch of people did psychedelics and then found that reality seemed more inclined to listen to their volition and respond to their intention or attention.
this was an n of some small number, and the original person who reported it could not reproduce it.
i don't believe this is good science. the test is self made by the subject while under the affect of the drug. the subject has a bias as well.
this is a trip report.
"i don't believe this is good science"
This is a blog.
This works for me without DMT.
It's pretty easy for me to replicate the balanced circles by gazing at the center point. However, I can't say whether that would've held true had I not been predisposed to the possibility via the article.
It does require me to slightly "space out", for lack of a better way of putting. Not defocus, more like downshifting my visual cortex a notch.
For whatever it's worth, I was a college kid in the 90s, and I can induce a wavy effect on patterned walls and floors via a similar spacing out.
Thanks for the report. Some people do report being able to cancel it while sober. For most of them, defocusing their vision is required, which is not particularly surprising - you are removing the surrounding context.
Could you please tell me more about downshifting the visual cortex? I am planning to publish an update on this illusion, with various sober attention techniques to establish a baseline for future research.
At least I learned 5-MeO isn’t a song visual experience, I thought it was for some reason. On N, N-DMT you wouldn’t be able to look at anything.
To my knowledge shrooms haven’t been legalized in California so I was curious what they sold (but not enough to try it). Turns out California state regulators have been surreptitiously testing the product from time to time and most of it is 5-MeO-DMT… and they don’t do anything about it despite being schedule I.
Venice Beach, leading the way in “medical” research!
State regulators do not "surreptitiously test" Schedule I drugs on the public via retail sale. That's just inane.
There is no legal classification for "magic mushrooms", but I am willing to bet that the products for sale are legal, and do not contain psilocybin or psilocin.
They're just some unregulated compound that might have come from mushrooms, but is more likely made in a lab, and may or may not be mildly psychoactive.
And they'll probably add some caffeine and theobromine, which boardwalk denizens will feel the effects of and not know precisely how to categorize.
FWIW, OP's framing is still misleading though. Regulators do not test retail product as part of some kind of surreptitious sting operation, which they then do not bother to follow through on.
The Department of Public Health responds to complaints, and patterns of medical reporting to find a cause and determine whether there are legal or health code violations. The sale of 5-MeO-DMT (or psilocybin or psilocin) would be shut down, and charges filed.
The sale of 4-Aco-DMT would be legal, so instead they issue warnings that amount to "That thing you bought that was sold with claims of similarity to an illegal drug does actually have physiological effects even though it's legal, so be careful.". Which is fair enough!
Legal, unregulated, and synthetic. But close enough for the moderately-savvy customer.
It's not like those horrible synthetic THC analogues we see in Europe that can kill people.
I actually prefer 4-AcO because it's easier to get a consistent dose with (mushrooms vary in potency) and doesn't cause the nausea that consuming dried mushrooms sometimes causes.
Also, it is an extremely powerful psychedelic with effects nothing like psilocybin. It’s most likely 4-Aco-DMT
This article also says that 5-MeO-DMT has no psychoactive effects taken orally
[1] https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/OPA/Pages/NR25-024.aspx
Of note the legal status in that state regulator’s article is misleading
4-Acetoxy-DET And 4-Acetoxy-DMT are not on any schedule, but could be subjected to the Analog Act, which itself has unresolved legal status per substance
Apparently it feeds your biases though. Check your filters, perhaps?
My brother, that is philosophical position, not a "bet".
I'm really confused by the idea that we're at some kind of evolutionary local minimum and psychidelics are going to push us out.
I'm not up on the biology, but don't our bodies produce DMT (I realize that's not the compund from the article) and/or analogues? If psychdelics allow us to see the truth, why isn't my brain upping the dose?
You may be an exception here?
Most humans, myself included, see the right circle as larger than the left one, regardless of how strongly you know they are the same size. Perception quirks like these are the basis for a lot of graphic design theory.
If the drug cancels this effect, it is doing something significant to the brain.
Anyways my guess is that his pupils were the size of dinner plates and I'd wonder if having your eyes dilated by other means would have a similar effect
because you are not stressing it in the right way.
PS. idk where you got the idea of 'we're at some kind of evolutionary local minimum'. it was never about that.
Most one can do is accept that one is limited by one's perception and then keep that in mind.
We're all blind, and that might be an elephant.
On that hypothesis, it doesnt really surprise me that illusions based on context clues are interpreted differently.
So I vibe code one:
https://ebbinghaus-effect.greulen.workers.dev
(a one shot in DeepSeek, with only manual adjustments for the sizes)